“The Last Jedi’s” Laura Dern on her LGBTQ “Star Wars” heroine, Vice Admiral Holdo, her emotional scene with Carrie Fisher, and the director she’d love to see join the galaxy far, far away
Emotional, stirring, and in “ Star Wars: The Last Jedi ” even elegiac, the line takes on new meaning in scenes the late Carrie Fisher shares with Laura Dern as Vice Adm. Holdo, one of the leaders of General Leia Organa’s Resistance and the enigmatic new character whose principles lead the saga into its next chapter.
Speaking with The Times a week into the release of “The Last Jedi,” Dern was effusive with love for her character, the film, and its writer-director, Rian Johnson. And to answer one of the most urgent questions to come out of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi”: Yes, Laura Dern will now henceforth — proudly — answer to the title “Space Dern.”
In fact, the affectionate honorific was bestowed upon Dern out of sheer fan demand by Vulture writer Kyle Buchanan even before the first image of her lilac-haired, cosmic-coutured Holdo hit the internet. But it earned special resonance with the release of “The Last Jedi” when the true magnitude of Space Dern and all she stands for were revealed in Holdo’s unforgettable acts, brought to life with dexterity and depth by Dern in some of the film’s most memorable scenes.
[Laughs] That is hilarious! And yes, you can refer to me as “Space Dern” from this point forward. Maybe no one else will but I’m going to ask my children to.
He had written this for me, which was so beautiful. And he really wanted that dynamic to occur — and to occur between a man and a woman. To have not only this male character [Poe] but the audience be on this journey — is she good, is she bad, is she going to mess everything up, why does she not look like a hero in boys’ clothes? — all of those things, were in how he first addressed it.
Especially in the zeitgeist of all we’re thinking about in terms of who women are in positions of power, and not being impacted by abuses of power — I just feel really proud to be part of that story line in a film that’s being seen so widely, and by a generation of girls and boys that we’re all raising. All these characters are equally complicated, diverse and powerfully heroic… I just love it.
I feel privileged that Rian gave us the room. It’s hard enough on a $7 million movie when there’s a time crunch and craziness to go, “Can we just try something?” How can we pay homage to Leia and to the women that she’s bred to be powerful and independent? To try to sum that up in a scene in a movie that’s filled with a lot of other storytelling and visual effects and everything else was an amazing gift to be a part of.
I’ve seen it three times, and honestly I would be thrilled to see it again. It deepens every time, it’s so rich. I think it’s just extraordinary, I really do. The first time I watched it on a politically subversive level; the next time I watched it as this legacy to Carrie, and to Luke Skywalker, and to what George Lucas created, and to Joseph Campbell, and all we got from the first three films. And then you’re just in the fun and the bliss and the irreverence of it… it just keeps unfolding.
She really was our first true heroine. The light and the dark is not the story of “Star Wars”; the story of “Star Wars” is the story of the gray. We’re all capable of both, and we have to wrestle with that inside. Brilliantly, Mark Hamill always says “Star Wars” is the story of a dysfunctional family. It’s that, too!
For us growing up it was like, “Oh! Women can be sensual and complicated and tough and fiery, and be a badass, and be a superhero.” To witness her performance you see the wisdom she held at this point in her life, her art, her irreverence, her unbelievable sense of comedy, and her relationship and dynamic with Rian, who really wanted it to be an homage to Leia.
I know there have been references by fans about Poe and Finn. I mean, my God — they’d be the most beautiful couple ever! I think there’s a quality in Holdo that supports the idea. You get the sense that she was a hippie who would acknowledge all things and never judge. So it’s not that it doesn’t lend itself to that — many people also think there’s a deep sexual tension between her and Poe — but you put onto it what you come in with.
Most importantly, I do believe that this team of filmmakers will not rest until the LGBTQ community is deeply represented, and I don’t think that we would want Holdo to be where it stops, because it’s not clear, nor was it our intent. What I’m thrilled to say is, caring deeply about it and about everyone being honored and represented, I would never want to shy away from that if that was the goal.
It’s amazing how they cut it together. All of it was just stunning to me. Along with the Space Dern name, I also like and appreciate all the theorizing about what happens in that moment. I’ve had people come up to me on the street asking me about my eject pod! Kids ask me what the ability is that Leia has to fly through space and live for a period of time, and if she taught Holdo that. I think it’s a very interesting theory! [Laughs]
[Laughs] No, I did not. I was not prepared for that at all, and I love it. I’m learning so much about “Star Wars” because of it! But I do think the idea of willing sacrifice, and someone’s silent intent to not need to be a hero but to save everyone is just profound. There’s definitely something for me to learn about the idea of perception versus knowing. It’s a deep spiritual question, in many religions too, this idea of not needing to prove who you are, but knowing it. It’s a big question.
[Pauses dramatically] All I can say is, I’ve never wanted to see anything more. I mean, who do we start begging?
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