The late drummer Ginger Baker (unfiltered) on Led Zep’s John Bonham, his disdain for heavy metal, Cream’s birth and death, heroin, feuds with Jack Bruce, RRHOF, more.
In 1997, I had the opportunity to interview the late, great and sometimes cantankerous drum legend Ginger Baker. The chat occurred at Baker’s then-horse farm, in Parker, Colorado.
Baker died in 2019, of course, but what he had to say back then is still relative, and an important part of rock history.
We spent the day discussing the supergroup Cream, the band he is most famous for; Led Zeppelin and his disinterest in its drummer John Bonham; how Americans don’t know how to make a proper cup of tea; his volatile relationship with Cream bassist Jack Bruce; the power trio’s induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame; in 1993; the possibility of a Cream reunion (it did happen, in 2005); his disdain for heavy metal music; and more.
This interview has been published in bits and pieces over the years, but for the first time the chat appears here, in its entirety, with light edits. Baker was on good behavior the day we met, which was not always the case. Take the 2012 documentary, Beware Of Mr. Baker, where, in a fit of rage, he threw his crutch at the director, breaking the guy’s his nose.
Jim Clash: Cream did great stuff its short life, from 1966-68. What do you remember about the abrupt end of the group?
Ginger Baker: Looking back on the last tour, Eric [Clapton] came to me and said, “I’m fed up with this.” And I said, “So am I.” And that was it. Finished. It wasn’t enjoyable anymore. We’d walk on stage and get a standing ovation before we played a note. Even if the gig was bad – if we thought it was f’ing awful – all these people were screaming and going crazy saying, “This is wonderful!”
That [1968 farewell] concert at the [Royal] Albert Hall is not anywhere near Cream at its best. It was an enormous relief, but also a feeling of, “all that for nothing.” It has stayed with me to this day. Some wonderful music, some wonderful times, but also some of the most horrendous for me personally.
I can remember at the recording studio going down to the bar and drinking Bacardi and Coke, Bacardi and Coke, doing eight or nine of them in order to be able to go back into the studio and not punch people. That’s how pissed off I had become. I could see what was happening. In the end, I couldn’t take it anymore, and Eric was the same.
Clash: How was the experience in 1993 when you, Eric Clapton and Jack Bruce were inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame?
Baker: The rehearsals were magic. But at the actual thing, we had to listen to a lot of bozos making these extraordinarily mundane speeches. It was virtually the same one, over and over again. “I’d like to thank my mum and my dad, the uncle that lent me 50 bucks, my cat, my kids, the horse.” You know, this long list. These diatribes went on while we sat at a table for eight hours! Then, finally, you go on stage. We did okay, but it wasn’t anywhere near the same as rehearsals. [During those] it was like the 25 years [since our Royal Albert farewell concert] had not gone by.
Clash: During the height of Cream, were you guys wealthy?
Baker: We thought we were [laughs]. But we were being ripped off just about everywhere. I was the one responsible for that. They would ask me to sign this contact, and I would. It was standard back then and we were getting like 4½% of 90% for the first three Cream records. Later, we got it up to 8% of 90%.
When CDs first came out, we got a letter saying they were going to pay us the same royalty because it was so expensive to produce them. The 90% [instead of 100%] was supposed to be because of breakage [with records], but you don’t get breakage with CDs [laughs]. The record companies, unfortunately, had you by the balls. They had the distribution network. And they took the majority of the money.
Clash: How about royalties from radio stations each time your song was played?
Baker: There was so much money Cream made that went by the boards because it was never claimed. Every country virtually had its own performing rights society. They collected the money from the radio stations when the records were played. Unless you go to them and say, “Can I have my money, please?” you won’t get it. We were finding money for years after with stuff like this.
Clash: You’re a big fan of polo.
GB: Polo in America is the sport of Wall Street kings. They take their attitudes into the sport. Winning is everything in America, and they win by hook or by crook. Polo, to me, is an honorable game played by honorable gentlemen. If I had a good game and played well, I don’t really care whether I win or lose. It’s about having fun. I’m not greedy. I don’t understand the point of having more money than you know what to do with. Money is the root of all evils. The happiest times in my life were when I’ve had nothing to do with money.
Clash: What is your take on heavy metal?
Baker: These people that dress up in spandex trousers with all the extraordinary makeup – I find it incredibly repulsive, always have. I’ve seen where Cream is sort of held responsible for the birth of heavy metal. Well, I would definitely go for aborting [laughs]. I loathe and detest heavy metal. I think it is an abortion.
A lot of these guys come up and say, “Man, you were my influence, the way you thrashed the drums.” They don’t seem to understand I was thrashing in order to hear what I was playing. It was anger, not enjoyment – and painful. I suffered on stage because of that [high amplifier] volume crap. I didn’t like it then, and like it even less now. That whole Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame thing – at least half the people in there don’t have a place in any kind of hall of fame anywhere, in my opinion.
Clash: Anybody you want to name in particular?
Baker: I don’t want to cause any more trouble.
