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On today’s episode of the 5 Things podcast: Ex-U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund reflects on January 6
Former U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund looks back on the Jan. 6 attack and talks about his new book, “Courage Under Fire: Under Siege And Outnumbered 58 TO 1 On January 6.” Plus, GOP leader Kevin McCarthy fails to rise as speaker on the 11th ballot, Tech radio host and columnist Kim Komando tells you what to know about your data privacy, USA TODAY Money and Personal Finance Reporter Medora Lee talks about forgotten 401(k)s, and Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin wakes up.
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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
Taylor Wilson:
Good morning. I’m Taylor Wilson and this is 5 Things you need to know Friday, the 6th of January, 2023. Today, former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund two years after the January 6th riot. Plus, there’s still no Speaker of the House, and we look at how much tech companies actually know about your data.
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Courage Under Fire: Under Siege and Outnumbered 58 to 1 on January 6. That’s the gripping personal account by former United States Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund that takes readers inside the events leading up to the attack on the Capitol on January 6th, 2021. Producer PJ Elliott got a chance to speak to former Chief Sund about his book two years after the riot.
PJ Elliott:
Chief Sund, I want to thank you for your time in joining 5 Things today.
Steven Sund:
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
PJ Elliott:
Let’s start with this, why did you write your book Courage Under Fire?
Steven Sund:
I wrote my book because when January 6th happened and I began to find out what the truth behind why we appeared to be so ill prepared, I first went and wrote a eight-page letter to Congress. I got zero responses talking about the issues that I saw that led up to the problems with January 6th. People don’t realize when I’m talking about in the book, when they had the combined Senate hearing, they initially didn’t want to call me. They didn’t want myself, Stinger or Irving to testify, and I actually had to go to the Rules Committee and request to testify and actually push, saying, «I will come in person.» And I was. I was the only person there in person.
And still it’s not getting out. Went to «60 Minutes.» But needless to say, I’m worried something like this could happen again. I think my men and women did a phenomenal job. Law enforcement saved the day that day, but there’s critical things that are broken that need to be fixed.
PJ Elliott:
What do you want people to know about what happened on January 6th?
Steven Sund:
Well, first of all, I want them just to understand a little bit about the Capitol Police. Capitol Police is a very unique law enforcement agency. We’re the only law enforcement agency of the legislative branch. And what people don’t realize is there’s a oversight structure that’s set up over the Capitol Police that’s a recipe for disaster. It’s all politically aligned. I’ve got a four-member Capitol Police board. I’m the fourth member. That’s made up of the Sergeant at Arms of the House, Sergeant at Arms of the Senate and the Architect of the Capitol. Three politically appointed people who are the voting members. I have no vote and I’m not politically appointed. So they report to their respective leadership and push their policies.
Then I have an oversight committee that’s all politically aligned to the staff, to their respective political parties. That’s a recipe for disaster. I’m the only chief in the United States that has a federal law, think about this, that prevents me from calling in resources before an event like January 6th. On January 3rd, I went and requested the National Guard, but this federal law required that I go to the Capitol Police Board, which denied me.
Then on January 6th, while we’re under attack, I still have to go and request permission to call in federal resources because, when a law enforcement agency’s overrun and I dial 911, I’m calling the National Guard. 71 minutes I had to wait while my men and women fought very hard on the West Front. You saw all that on national TV. 71 minutes, only then to find out the National Guard — who was positioned less than a half mile away from the Capitol with all their gear, 150 of them — wouldn’t move for three and a half hours to help me.
PJ Elliott:
Why do you think that is? Why do you think that you were denied those resources?
Steven Sund:
Well, the initial denial on January 3rd from Paul Irving was because of the look, the optics, so he said, of the National Guard on the Hill. I think that goes back to the concern that Speaker Pelosi talked about the look of federal officers and National Guard on the city streets during the 2020 riots. She referred to them as stormtroopers. I believe there was a lot of reluctance for her to have National Guard deployed on Capitol Hill, and I was only looking for unarmed National Guard. And on the day of the event, Paul Irving could have given me direct approval for National Guard, but he didn’t. He wanted to run it up the chain and that took 71 agonizing minutes.
PJ Elliott:
So now I want to ask you about the days leading up to January 6th. Were you aware that there was the potential for an attack on the Capitol of this magnitude?
Steven Sund:
Absolutely not. I wasn’t aware, the chief of the Metropolitan Police Department, Robert Contee wasn’t aware. What’s interesting is all the research that I’ve done since January 6th, and you’ll find there’s significant intelligence that’s listed in the book, you find that the intelligence community had some significant intelligence talking about a coordinated attack on the Capitol.
